{"id":960,"date":"2009-08-17T12:14:34","date_gmt":"2009-08-17T12:14:34","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2009\/08\/romans_91-29_-_election_really.shtml"},"modified":"2021-05-29T02:44:41","modified_gmt":"2021-05-29T02:44:41","slug":"romans_91-29_-_election_really","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2009\/08\/romans_91-29_-_election_really.shtml","title":{"rendered":"Romans 9:1-29 – Election, Really?"},"content":{"rendered":"

Romans 9:6 – “… not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel<\/em>” For the largely Gentile audience at Rome, this was not likely controversial, but to the Jews who were reading, I imagine it was a radical, and offensive, statement. Some in Israel aren’t true Israelites?!? But what this points to is the larger context of the Kingdom of God. It’s a kingdom that has no regard for human borders or even familial or genetic ties. it is instead a Kingdom built on the hearts of men and defined by them. Men continue to this day to define it by lines drawn in human ways – church membership, doctrinal positions and human behaviors – but that is not the nature of the Kingdom. It defies human descriptions and boundaries.
\nRomans 9:10-13 – Here we are, back at election. Paul says that before the twins (Jacob and Esau) were born, she was told what would happen to them (see Genesis 25). This was, Paul says, to continue God’s purposes in election. I always took that as a prediction or prophesy of what was to happen, not as a determination or a decision on God’s behalf as to what they would do. In other words, God, seeing all of time, saw in advance what would become of these boys and what they would do, but he did not decide<\/em> that that is what they would do. But Paul here, seems<\/em> to imply that this was God’s doing, that he set it up this way to fulfill His purposes.
\nI have to admit, one of the reasons that election or pre-destination, as I understand it, rubs me the wrong way is that I don’t like the idea that God picks and chooses, aside from anything on my part, those who are His and those who are not. Frankly, there’s part of me that wants to give up on a God who would be so arbitrary. It flies in the face of all the teachings in the scriptures telling people that there is reward in following God. Election says to me that there’s reward in God’s choosing, that my actions or faith or obedience means nothing. Certainly, none of us are capable of enough good deeds to make a difference, bur God repeatedly calls us to obey and tells us that it is part of the faith that we proclaim. But I want to know that I’m understanding the theology behind it before I reject it. And frankly, if that’s the way God works, who am I to question it? My hunch is that I’m missing something that would turn this from a notion of arbitrary approval.
\nRomans 9:14-18 – OK, this passage isn’t helping my cause. \ud83d\ude00 Verse 15 says: “For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”<\/em>“. Still, does that mean that God is picking and choosing, or that He chooses to have mercy on those who put their faith in Jesus? Still, verse 18 is troubling to me: “So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.<\/em>”
\nRomans 9:19-21 – Ouch:<\/p>\n

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Romans 9:22-29 – This last passage just muddies the waters for me. The earlier verses seem pretty plain that it is God who chooses. Some he chooses for salvation, others not. But this part talks of how he has called those who were not His to be His, but only a remnant of Isreal will be saved. It’s confusing to me and, frankly, depressing. I’m just not sure what to do with the idea that some that I meet may have been prepared by God as “vessels of wrath”. What value, then, is there is preaching the Gospel? Why bother if God has decided? What does it matter what I do or do not do?
\nThis has been the most discouraging study I’ve had in a long time. I think this is something I need to dig into and figure out. I’d love any thought you have on election and how, if you do not believe in pre-destination, you explain these passages.
\nOne thing is for certain, there is truth to be found and God is good. I may not get it, but that does not negate His goodness. Perhaps the next chapters of Romans will help me …<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Romans 9:6 – “… not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel” For the largely Gentile audience at Rome, this was not likely controversial, but to the JewsRead More Romans 9:1-29 – Election, Really?<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[6],"tags":[],"yoast_head":"\nRomans 9:1-29 - Election, Really? - salguod.net<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2009\/08\/romans_91-29_-_election_really.shtml\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Romans 9:1-29 - Election, Really? - salguod.net\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Romans 9:6 – “… not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel” For the largely Gentile audience at Rome, this was not likely controversial, but to the JewsRead More Romans 9:1-29 – Election, Really?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2009\/08\/romans_91-29_-_election_really.shtml\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"salguod.net\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-08-17T12:14:34+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2021-05-29T02:44:41+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Doug Schaefer\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@salguod\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Doug Schaefer\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"4 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2009\/08\/romans_91-29_-_election_really.shtml\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2009\/08\/romans_91-29_-_election_really.shtml\",\"name\":\"Romans 9:1-29 - Election, Really? 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What does that look like, I wonder? it's tempting to say that God has somewhat randomly and arbitrarily picked some to be his and that means that they do not\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Quiet Time Journal"","block_context":{"text":"Quiet Time Journal","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/quiet-time-journal"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":963,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2009\/08\/romans_930-1021_-_by_faith.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":960,"position":1},"title":"Romans 9:30-10:21 – By Faith","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"August 26, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"I'm nearing that 'Place Where I Can Stand' mentioned in my last (non-FfF) post. More on that later, first, on with my study of Romans. Romans 9:30-33 - See here, the Gentiles attained something they did not pursue. How? 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Romans 9:14-24\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Quiet Time Journal"","block_context":{"text":"Quiet Time Journal","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/quiet-time-journal"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":961,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2009\/08\/a_place_where_i_can_stand.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":960,"position":3},"title":"A Place Where I can Stand","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"August 20, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"If you haven't read my prior post on Romans 9, you should do so for back ground on this. To say that Romans 9 threw me for a loop is accurate, I'd guess, but not exactly fair to Romans. 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