{"id":956,"date":"2009-08-03T12:23:03","date_gmt":"2009-08-03T12:23:03","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2009\/08\/romans_8_-_flesh_vs_spirit.shtml"},"modified":"2021-05-29T02:44:41","modified_gmt":"2021-05-29T02:44:41","slug":"romans_8_-_flesh_vs_spirit","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2009\/08\/romans_8_-_flesh_vs_spirit.shtml","title":{"rendered":"Romans 8 – Flesh vs. Spirit"},"content":{"rendered":"

Wow, has it been over three weeks since my last Quiet Time Journal entry? Yep. I’m not a fan of the ‘Quiet Time is your relationship with God’ model, but over three weeks without sitting with your face in God’s word isn’t good either. Thanks to our minister, Doug Geyer, for his message on Sunday (unfortunately not recorded) that challenged me to get back on track.<\/em>
\nRomans 8:1 – Three weeks later and this verse still is an amazing comfort to a weary soul. No condemnation.<\/em>
\nRomans 8:2-8 – I always looked at this as those in the flesh are non-Christinas or perhaps Christians not living right and those in the spirit as those doing the right things. But now I see that Paul isn’t contrasting the ‘ins’ verses the ‘outs’ here, but contrasting, as he has throughout Romans, two different mindsets.
\nThe mindset of the flesh is to use law or rules of man to get close to God, the mindset of the spirit trusts in and relies on Jesus completely. The flesh says God expects me to do X, Y and Z to be with Him, the spirit says God longs to be with me and through Jesus I can be with him, so I’m going to do X, Y and Z because I know it pleases Him.
\nIt’s a radically different way of thinking. One works, the other simply can’t.
\nRomans 8:15 confirms this: “For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”<\/em>” The way of the flesh is one of fear. If I don’t live up to the demands of God, I will be punished, so I’ll work to earn his favor. The spirit of sonship says I already have his favor, so I’ll act like it.
\nRomans 8:28 – The ESV words this a little differently than the NIV that I’ve read for so long. The difference is small, but the change in meaning is profound:<\/p>\n

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. <\/p>\n

(ESV)<\/div>\n

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.<\/p>\n

(NIV)<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n

The NIV seems to imply that God is behind the scenes, pulling the strings, working things out for out good. The ESV doesn’t say that God is working, but that the things work for our good. When I read the ESV version, I think that perhaps it isn’t that God is stacking the deck on our pehalf (which is how the standard NIV interpretation feels), but rather that because we love God, our mindset allows us to see things in a new light, a light that allows them to ‘work together for good’.
\nThen again, maybe it’s the closet deist in me coming out again. What do you make of this passage and the differences in translations?
\nRomans 8:31-39 – I love this passage, as many do. The contrast between the call to suffer earlier (Romans 8:17-18) and the certainties of Romans 8:38-39 is profound. He does not promise, as too many modern preachers will, that our lives will be free from pain. No, rather he tells us plainly that we will suffer more from following Christ, but the love that God has lavished on us through Jesus is incomparable to anything that we suffer here.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Wow, has it been over three weeks since my last Quiet Time Journal entry? Yep. I’m not a fan of the ‘Quiet Time is your relationship with God’ model, butRead More Romans 8 – Flesh vs. Spirit<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[6],"tags":[],"yoast_head":"\nRomans 8 - Flesh vs. Spirit - salguod.net<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2009\/08\/romans_8_-_flesh_vs_spirit.shtml\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Romans 8 - Flesh vs. Spirit - salguod.net\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Wow, has it been over three weeks since my last Quiet Time Journal entry? Yep. 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It is not an oppressive command or expectation, to do all the right things,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Quiet Time Journal"","block_context":{"text":"Quiet Time Journal","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/quiet-time-journal"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":974,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2009\/09\/romans_13_-_submission_love_and_light.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":956,"position":1},"title":"Romans 13 – Submission, Love and Light","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"September 29, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"Romans 13:1 - I wonder how scandalous these words were to the church in Rome, especially as they remembered them as the Roman government ramped up it's persecutions of the Christians? Submit to those who had no regard for them or their rights? 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Romans 9:14-24\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Quiet Time Journal"","block_context":{"text":"Quiet Time Journal","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/quiet-time-journal"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":442,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2006\/01\/romans_7.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":956,"position":4},"title":"Romans 7","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"January 31, 2006","format":false,"excerpt":"Romans 7:1-4 - I hadn't caught this reference to being freed, in this case from the law, through death. It's inspiring to me to think of what a transformation this is. This participation in Christ's death changes everything, do we really understand that? 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