{"id":213,"date":"2004-10-20T23:42:57","date_gmt":"2004-10-20T23:42:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/10\/some_thoughts_o.shtml"},"modified":"2021-05-29T02:48:40","modified_gmt":"2021-05-29T02:48:40","slug":"some_thoughts_o","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/10\/some_thoughts_o.shtml","title":{"rendered":"Some Thoughts on Church Discipline"},"content":{"rendered":"

UPDATE:<\/strong> See my updated thoughts here<\/a>.
\nThe leadership team at my church is talking about how we can be unified on the idea of church disciplline of sin. The text that we’ve focused on is Matthew 18:15-17. The following is my initial thoughts on the issue. I know that some church members read my blog so I wanted to make it clear: We have not come to any consensus as a group and these thoughts are only my own. However, I thought some of my readers may have some thoughts that would be helpful.<\/i>
\nAlthough Matthew 18:15-17 is directed at sin between two people, I think that it is appropriate for principles to be applied to any sin in the church. I would like to see us practice policies and develop an atmosphere that encourages people to do steps 1 and 2 on their own. We should train the disciples in resolving these issues in this manner. It’s my conviction that, as a leadership team (Deacons and Ministers), we should not be involved in these types of things until verse 17. This is to protect the sinner as he or she deals with their sin. Let them do so in private, telling only those they wish to. This shows love and respect for the sinner.
\nI believe that in the past we (corporately) have been too quick to tell others about someone’s sin. Frankly, it’s gossip and the Bible has much to say against it (Proverbs 11:13, 20:19, 3 John 1:10). This sort of sharing paints a picture of that person that is etched in the mind of the hearer. Does Sam need to know that Fred struggles with pornography? Is it beneficial for building up either Sam or Fred (Ephesians 4:29)? Now Sam’s image of Fred is unnecessarily polluted by the words that were spoken. Perhaps you think that Sam can help Fred deal with this sin. That may be, but the respectful and loving thing to do would be to ask Fred if he minds having Sam involved. Perhaps he would rather not tell Sam, but thinks that George might be of help. Fred gets help and feels loved and respected. It simply shows that you care.
\nI want to see us develop and environment with this kind of respect is the norm in our church and is a high priority. I think we can do so if we as the leadership make it our own personal conviction to be determined to avoid gossip and that we reinforce that, one on one, with others. I do not want an environment where my sin, yours or another’s might be broadcast, even with good intentions, to others. I was once in a situation where a married couple was having difficulties. One spouse shared openly about their struggles with the other and their perception of the other’s sin. In concern, that was shared with the leader of the group who shared it with others, with the idea of getting advice or having them pray. It got back to the spouse who was deeply hurt. They felt that the situation was misunderstood and that they were judged without having been heard. They were then reluctant to get together to get help with their marriage because it seemed that they were automatically going to get laid out. Had Matthew 18 been followed and gossip avoided, this could have turned out much better.
\nSo, in terms of how we should, as a leadership team, confront sin, my thoughts are that we turn people to these scriptures first. First we should if at all possible make sure that the person bringing it to our attention does their best to do so anonymously. Cut them off before they say a name out of respect to the accused (what if it is false?). Then go through the steps outlined here. Have they approached the person privately? If not, they should do so first. If the have and it has not gone well, have they brought in someone close to both of them? We should encourage the second or third brother or sister to be a neutral party, preferably someone each person agrees on. In the past we have treated this as a ‘climb the ladder of authority’ system that can create mistrust. If you won’t listen to the bible talk leader, we’ll get the zone leader to deal with you. Instead we should strive to create as neutral an environment as possible where everyone feels that they will be treated fairly. Only if that hasn’t worked, then both persons involved in confronting that person should come together to the leadership team and get us involved.
\nOur Lord told us that loving each other is the most important thing we can do outside of loving Him. We must remember the definitions of love in 1Corinthians 13 when dealing with sin. It is patient and kind. It keeps no record of wrongs. It rejoices in the truth. It always protects, always trusts and always perseveres. And love never fails. I am convinced that an atmosphere of love, which must be free of hurtful and damaging gossip, will set us up to truly help people be victorious over their sin. That is the goal, isn’t it?
\nWhat if they refuse to listen to us? Matthew 18 says to treat them as a pagan or tax collector. I used to assume that meant they were shunned. Then I remembered how Jesus treated the tax collectors. He ate with them (Matthew 9, Luke 5). He hung out with them (Matthew 11:19, Luke 15:1). He loved them. He didn’t necessarily call them his disciples, but he did not shun them and in His love, he influenced them (Luke 7:29). The world will abandon the one who sins against them. If we do the same, how will they be saved? If they deliberately refuse to repent, I think it is entirely appropriate that we ask them to leave the church for a time. We should not encourage or condone the shunning of these people, however. On the contrary, we should encourage the other disciples to serve them and love them, continuing to show them God’s love in spite of their sin. In 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 Paul say that we are not to associate with men who do not obey, but also says to warn them like a brother, not an enemy. So I believe we can exclude them from our fellowship but should encourage people, especially those close to them, to maintain a relationship and love them even more. In fact, for those who are close I would even challenge them on their lack of love if I saw them abandoning and shunning the sinner. 1 Peter 4:8 reminds us to love each other above all else, because love covers a multitude of sins.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

UPDATE: See my updated thoughts here. The leadership team at my church is talking about how we can be unified on the idea of church disciplline of sin. The textRead More Some Thoughts on Church Discipline<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[8,2],"tags":[],"yoast_head":"\nSome Thoughts on Church Discipline - salguod.net<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/10\/some_thoughts_o.shtml\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Some Thoughts on Church Discipline - salguod.net\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"UPDATE: See my updated thoughts here. 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While my earlier post were my thoughts prior to meeting with the rest of my church's leadership group (deaons and ministers), the following is my summary of our collective thoughts. The idea was that we would be\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Articles, papers and lessons"","block_context":{"text":"Articles, papers and lessons","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/articles-papers-and-lessons"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":288,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2005\/03\/dj_on_church_di.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":213,"position":1},"title":"DJ on Church Discipline","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"March 16, 2005","format":false,"excerpt":"Douglas Jacoby has an interesting article on Church Discipline posted on his web site. Since the Deacons of the church have spent some time on this and I've chronicled that and my thoughts here, I thought I'd link to it here. It was written in 1994 and revised in 2005.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "God and Church"","block_context":{"text":"God and Church","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/god-and-church"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":146,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/06\/a_slight_correc.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":213,"position":2},"title":"A slight correction …","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"June 4, 2004","format":false,"excerpt":"I have edited my comments on the Deacon's meeting of a couple weeks ago. One of the men, reading my comments, suggested that I should be careful to distinguish that these are my own feelings and impressions, not those of the group. An excellect point. I am only one man,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "God and Church"","block_context":{"text":"God and Church","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/god-and-church"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":511,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2006\/06\/what_does_total.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":213,"position":3},"title":"What Does Total Commitment Look Like?","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"June 21, 2006","format":false,"excerpt":"The idea of total commitment is not new, and it goes back farther than those infamous 30 'would be' back in 1979. Right after delivering the 10 commandments to Israel (Deuteronomy 5), Moses said this to the people:Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Love the\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "God and Church"","block_context":{"text":"God and Church","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/god-and-church"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":300,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2005\/04\/final_week_tues.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":213,"position":4},"title":"Final Week – Tuesday Morning","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"April 4, 2005","format":false,"excerpt":"Matthew 21:20-46, 22:1-46, 23:1-39, Mark 11:20-33, 12:1-44, Luke 20:17-47, 21:11-4 Matthew 21:20-22, Mark 11:20-26 - Where is my faith in God? Am I so confident that I could give orders to nature and believe they would be carried out? 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