{"id":197,"date":"2004-09-15T13:00:14","date_gmt":"2004-09-15T13:00:14","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml"},"modified":"2021-05-29T02:48:40","modified_gmt":"2021-05-29T02:48:40","slug":"church_structur","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml","title":{"rendered":"Church Structure vs. Freedom"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Justin at <a href=\"http:\/\/www.radicalcongruency.com\">Radical Congruency <\/a>had an interesting <a href=\"http:\/\/www.radicalcongruency.com\/20040913-church-beyond-our-self-interests\">post <\/a>about the tension between traditional church structures &#8211; any structure really &#8211; and the room to freely express, explore and expand our relationship with God.  The Emergent Church (First time I&#8217;ve used that phrase here.  If you&#8217;re like me, you&#8217;ll need some help figuring out what that means.), that is those trying to emerge from the doldrums of traditional Christianity to live a full life that Jesus <a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/cgi-bin\/bible?passage=JOHN+10:10&#038;language=english&#038;version=NIV&#038;showfn=on&#038;showxref=on\">promised <\/a>us, is attempting to throw off the old ways and explore new ways of building a church community.  At Justin&#8217;s suggestion, I&#8217;ve decided to post my response here:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>What I hear from the &#8217;emergent&#8217; (I&#8217;m only beginning to understand what that means) is a longing for something more. More than a prayer ritual and a Bible reading schedule &#8211; a real connection and relationship with God. More than a Sunday service and midweek Bible study group &#8211; a real community of believers. More that a set of rules and regulations &#8211; a real life that&#8217;s free, exciting and fulfilling, not restrictive and dull. So we abandon tradition in pursuit of real, meaty Christianity. No pastors, no buildings, no structure &#8211; just live as a disciple! (correct me if I&#8217;ve missed what the Emergent Church is about)<br \/>\nThere&#8217;s a fallacy in that thinking. We <i>need <\/i>the structure. We need a worship schedule to remind us to go and worship together regularly. We need a prayer list to remind us to pray. We need a Bible study schedule to keep us going. And on and on. Perhaps you are good at one or two of those, but <i>none <\/i>of us are good at all of them. The challenge is how to have the structure, the accountability, the discipline with out that system becoming the focus. It seems that we take our eyes so easily off of Jesus and onto the system. Then it becomes more about the doing then the <i>why <\/i>we are doing.<br \/>\nMy church is wrestling with this now &#8211; and have been for over a year. We&#8217;ve spent the last year or so dismantling the structure that our church was based on and trying to recapture the heart underneath. It&#8217;s been immensely challenging. We&#8217;re discovering how much of who we are spiritually was tied to that structure. We had disciplers that advised on nearly everything. We had mandatory meetings and expected levels of giving. At one time we had input on nearly every aspect of your life. We had a pretty radically committed group as a result, but take it away and make them stand alone and their knees get wobbly and they&#8217;re not sure what to do. Structure can build us up, but can also be a crutch.<br \/>\nI&#8217;m not sure how we&#8217;re going to get to where we need to be. Some structure is needed but many are fearful of it and it&#8217;s empty results and lack of God focus. With the structure gone, there&#8217;s a void. The easy answer is to fill that void with a new structure. A different method. What needs to fill that void, however, is God, but how do we set up &#8211; structure &#8211; a church, a community, to do that? <\/p><\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Justin at Radical Congruency had an interesting post about the tension between traditional church structures &#8211; any structure really &#8211; and the room to freely express, explore and expand our<a href=\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml\" class=\"more-link\">Read More <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Church Structure vs. Freedom<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[2],"tags":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.8.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Church Structure vs. Freedom - salguod.net<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Church Structure vs. Freedom - salguod.net\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Justin at Radical Congruency had an interesting post about the tension between traditional church structures &#8211; any structure really &#8211; and the room to freely express, explore and expand ourRead More Church Structure vs. Freedom\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"salguod.net\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2004-09-15T13:00:14+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2021-05-29T02:48:40+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Doug Schaefer\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@salguod\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Doug Schaefer\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml\",\"name\":\"Church Structure vs. Freedom - salguod.net\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2004-09-15T13:00:14+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2021-05-29T02:48:40+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/2237e297e41300051087d8791343043f\"},\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Church Structure vs. Freedom\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/\",\"name\":\"salguod.net\",\"description\":\"Stuff I Think Up\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/2237e297e41300051087d8791343043f\",\"name\":\"Doug Schaefer\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/d8dde291ac4514740353f4bb9cbd9418?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/d8dde291ac4514740353f4bb9cbd9418?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Doug Schaefer\"},\"sameAs\":[\"http:\/\/salguod.net\",\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/salguod\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/author\/salguod\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Church Structure vs. Freedom - salguod.net","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Church Structure vs. Freedom - salguod.net","og_description":"Justin at Radical Congruency had an interesting post about the tension between traditional church structures &#8211; any structure really &#8211; and the room to freely express, explore and expand ourRead More Church Structure vs. Freedom","og_url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml","og_site_name":"salguod.net","article_published_time":"2004-09-15T13:00:14+00:00","article_modified_time":"2021-05-29T02:48:40+00:00","author":"Doug Schaefer","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@salguod","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Doug Schaefer","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml","url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml","name":"Church Structure vs. Freedom - salguod.net","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#website"},"datePublished":"2004-09-15T13:00:14+00:00","dateModified":"2021-05-29T02:48:40+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/2237e297e41300051087d8791343043f"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/church_structur.shtml#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Church Structure vs. Freedom"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#website","url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/","name":"salguod.net","description":"Stuff I Think Up","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/2237e297e41300051087d8791343043f","name":"Doug Schaefer","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/d8dde291ac4514740353f4bb9cbd9418?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/d8dde291ac4514740353f4bb9cbd9418?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Doug Schaefer"},"sameAs":["http:\/\/salguod.net","https:\/\/twitter.com\/salguod"],"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/author\/salguod"}]}},"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":325,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2005\/05\/new_links_1.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":197,"position":0},"title":"New links","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"May 6, 2005","format":false,"excerpt":"I tend to use my link list as my daily blog run down of sites I check regularly. Every now and then a new blog pops up and as I check them out, I add them to my list. It's time to do that again, and I have a bunch.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Salguod.net stuff&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Salguod.net stuff","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/salguod-net-stuff"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":238,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/12\/church_developm.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":197,"position":1},"title":"Church Developments","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"December 8, 2004","format":false,"excerpt":"I've had this written for a few days now, but I've been hesitant to post it. I know at least two members of my church read this blog regularly, and I fear both hurting their faith and, to be honest, a potential backlash at me for publicizing these thoughts and\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;God and Church&quot;","block_context":{"text":"God and Church","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/god-and-church"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":423,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2005\/12\/corporate_repen.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":197,"position":2},"title":"Corporate Repentance","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"December 18, 2005","format":false,"excerpt":"The union between the Father and the Son is such a live, concrete thing that this union itself is also a Person. I know that's almost inconceivable, but look at it this way. You know that among human beings, when they get together in a family, or a club, or\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;God and Church&quot;","block_context":{"text":"God and Church","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/god-and-church"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":198,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/missing_the_poi.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":197,"position":3},"title":"Missing the Point","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"September 15, 2004","format":false,"excerpt":"As I've mentioned before, the church I'm a part of is an offshoot of the Churches of Christ. One of the things that attracted me to this church was it's passion for thestandards and misson of God and for the restoration of first century Christianity. They were determined to get\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;God and Church&quot;","block_context":{"text":"God and Church","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/god-and-church"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":1026,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2010\/04\/1_corinthians_5_-_sin_in_the_church.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":197,"position":4},"title":"1 Corinthians 5 &#8211; Sin in the Church","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"April 19, 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"1 Corinthians 5:1-5 - In 1 Corinthians 4, Paul stressed that it is the Lord who judges, imploring them not to judge before the proper time. Yet here in verse 3 he says he has already passed judgment on the immoral brother. I suspect that he's referring to two different\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Quiet Time Journal&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Quiet Time Journal","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/quiet-time-journal"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":386,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2005\/09\/the_storm_is_pa.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":197,"position":5},"title":"The Storm is Passing Over","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"September 15, 2005","format":false,"excerpt":"FYI - Much of this is from the reports of the two men here that went to the Seattle Leadership Conference. I was not there, and most of this has not been published any where that I've seen. The list of 9 & the timeline is from ICOCinfo. Well, it\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;God and Church&quot;","block_context":{"text":"God and Church","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/god-and-church"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/197"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=197"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/197\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2075,"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/197\/revisions\/2075"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=197"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=197"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=197"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}