{"id":122,"date":"2004-04-14T21:57:44","date_gmt":"2004-04-14T21:57:44","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml"},"modified":"2021-05-29T02:48:44","modified_gmt":"2021-05-29T02:48:44","slug":"standing_firm_o","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml","title":{"rendered":"Standing Firm on the Tirvial"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Why is it that we &#8220;Christians&#8221; have to argue over the trivial?  By trivial, I mean things that don&#8217;t amount to a hill of beans one way or the other.  Shrode at the Thinklings brought this to the forefront of my mind when he <a href=\"http:\/\/www.thinklings.org\/index.php?p=1053&#038;more=1&#038;c=1\">posted <\/a>about the Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses assertion that Jesus did not die on a cross but on a stake.  Now I don&#8217;t consider the JW&#8217;s a &#8216;Christian&#8217; group (although other Christians might), but it illustrates the point.  Why take a stand on that?  It may be an interesting study, but it is ultimately of no consequence.  Like arguing about what color His underpants were.<br \/>\nMy church, part of the International Churches of Christ, has its roots in the Restoration Movement churches, which are famous for their splits over the trivial.  Within the Churches of Christ (which my own ICoC split from around 1979) there are groups divided over one cup or many for communion, whether instrumental music is allowed in service or not, whether a church building should have a kitchen, and more.   Not to minimize the passion of the convictions my brothers and sisters have on these issues, but none of them are of any importance.  I mean, if Jesus came back today to judge us, do we really think He will care about our stance on the cross vs. stake or if we had a piano at church?  In other words, if we come down on the &#8216;wrong&#8217; side of any of these issues, it will not have an influence on whether we are saved or not.  I&#8217;m convinced that there really isn&#8217;t a wrong side, unless doing one or the other violates <i>your own<\/i> conscience (Romans 2:14-15; 1 Corinthians 8).  We can discuss and debate them but to divide over them to the point of separation is just plain foolish, and even sin (Galatians 5:19-20).<br \/>\nFrankly, there are more important lines in the sand to draw, and from those it seems most Christians step back citing &#8216;to each his own&#8217;.  This seems backwards to me.  We ought to fight for unity on the essentials and let the rest fall where it may.  Didn&#8217;t Jesus pray for us to be unified (John 17)?  Didn&#8217;t Paul urge the disciples in Corinth to be united (1 Corinthians 1)?  The standards of discipleship, how we contact the blood of Christ and are forgiven, how we become saved \u2013 these are all fundamental aspects of Christianity.  These are among the fundamental things that being on the wrong side of could cost us dearly in the last days.<br \/>\nThe trick is coming together on what&#8217;s truly important.  How can we agree on a list of essentials if we insist on arguing about the trivial?  Well, if I had the answer to that one, I&#8217;d be one <i>really<\/i> insightful guy, which I am not.  Perhaps I&#8217;m na\u00c3\u00afve, but I don&#8217;t believe that God is one to mince words, obfuscate and confuse.  He doesn&#8217;t go out of the way to make it obvious, but He&#8217;s not out to make it hard to see either.  So while there is no clear list in scripture of that we should hold our ground on or even a step by step salvation plan, I believe that fundamental truth is there if we are willing to see it.  So are we willing?  It seems to me that in order to be able to stand firmly on truth, and to be confident that we have found it, we must be willing to abandon it \u2013 everything we believe.  As soon as an opinion becomes so sacred that it is unquestionable, we&#8217;ve abandoned the desire for truth in favor of comfort or stability.  Frankly I think that there is a core we can look to the Bible and agree on, if we are willing to open our minds, set aside our own opinions, at least for the moment, and listen to someone else&#8217;s.  If we&#8217;re not willing to be wrong, how can we be sure we&#8217;re right?<br \/>\nIn the coming days I&#8217;ll try to put into words what I see as the fundamental things that we must stand on.  I&#8217;ll cite scriptures for my thoughts.  Before I do that, however, I think I&#8217;ll have to step back even further and think about how can I judge whether a certain principal is worthy of taking a stand or not.  What makes it &#8216;fundamental&#8217; instead of just &#8216;important&#8217;?<br \/>\nIn the mean time, I&#8217;d like to encourage you to think about what is fundamental to you and why.  Please, don&#8217;t list them here, write about them in your own blog (kindly trackback here or to my later posts, please).  These may be controversial and we certainly won&#8217;t all agree on them.  This certainly won&#8217;t be the first time this has been talked about, not even the first time it&#8217;s been blogged.  What, then, do I hope to accomplish?  Well, ideally we&#8217;ll come closer together or at least have more respect for the other&#8217;s opinions.  The few folks I&#8217;ve gotten to know here in the blogosphere (I really think that&#8217;s a dorky word, BTW) are of a different stripe of Christianity than I.  If we met be change on the street and opened the Bible, I wonder how much we&#8217;d agree on.  What I don&#8217;t want to see is a continuation of the divisions that have plagued Christians or centuries.  Frankly, if this starts going there I&#8217;ll just delete the posts and pretend it never happened.  We can talk about more mundane things like what would Jesus drive.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Why is it that we &#8220;Christians&#8221; have to argue over the trivial? By trivial, I mean things that don&#8217;t amount to a hill of beans one way or the other.<a href=\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml\" class=\"more-link\">Read More <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Standing Firm on the Tirvial<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[2],"tags":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.8.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Standing Firm on the Tirvial - salguod.net<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Standing Firm on the Tirvial - salguod.net\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Why is it that we &#8220;Christians&#8221; have to argue over the trivial? By trivial, I mean things that don&#8217;t amount to a hill of beans one way or the other.Read More Standing Firm on the Tirvial\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"salguod.net\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2004-04-14T21:57:44+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2021-05-29T02:48:44+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Doug Schaefer\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:creator\" content=\"@salguod\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Doug Schaefer\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"5 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml\",\"name\":\"Standing Firm on the Tirvial - salguod.net\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2004-04-14T21:57:44+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2021-05-29T02:48:44+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/2237e297e41300051087d8791343043f\"},\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Standing Firm on the Tirvial\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/\",\"name\":\"salguod.net\",\"description\":\"Stuff I Think Up\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/2237e297e41300051087d8791343043f\",\"name\":\"Doug Schaefer\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/d8dde291ac4514740353f4bb9cbd9418?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/d8dde291ac4514740353f4bb9cbd9418?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Doug Schaefer\"},\"sameAs\":[\"http:\/\/salguod.net\",\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/salguod\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/author\/salguod\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Standing Firm on the Tirvial - salguod.net","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Standing Firm on the Tirvial - salguod.net","og_description":"Why is it that we &#8220;Christians&#8221; have to argue over the trivial? By trivial, I mean things that don&#8217;t amount to a hill of beans one way or the other.Read More Standing Firm on the Tirvial","og_url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml","og_site_name":"salguod.net","article_published_time":"2004-04-14T21:57:44+00:00","article_modified_time":"2021-05-29T02:48:44+00:00","author":"Doug Schaefer","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_creator":"@salguod","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Doug Schaefer","Est. reading time":"5 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml","url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml","name":"Standing Firm on the Tirvial - salguod.net","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#website"},"datePublished":"2004-04-14T21:57:44+00:00","dateModified":"2021-05-29T02:48:44+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/2237e297e41300051087d8791343043f"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/04\/standing_firm_o.shtml#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Standing Firm on the Tirvial"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#website","url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/","name":"salguod.net","description":"Stuff I Think Up","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/2237e297e41300051087d8791343043f","name":"Doug Schaefer","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/d8dde291ac4514740353f4bb9cbd9418?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/d8dde291ac4514740353f4bb9cbd9418?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Doug Schaefer"},"sameAs":["http:\/\/salguod.net","https:\/\/twitter.com\/salguod"],"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/author\/salguod"}]}},"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":93,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/03\/new_links_3.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":122,"position":0},"title":"New links","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"March 2, 2004","format":false,"excerpt":"I'm posting a few new links today. Since these are all related to my church, The Columbus Church of Christ, I'm doing a combined 'about' blog for them all. The first is our church web site. Back in 1996, Maria and I quit our jobs and moved to Columbus to\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Salguod.net stuff&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Salguod.net stuff","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/salguod-net-stuff"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":501,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2006\/06\/alan_on_our_sha.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":122,"position":1},"title":"Alan on Our Shared History","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"June 2, 2006","format":false,"excerpt":"Alan, on his blog Christian Unity, has just wrapped up an excellent series on the beginning of the division that now, unfortunately, characterizes the restoration movement. It was an education in where we come from that I am grateful for. From his last post:Thomas Campbell would not recognize this movement\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;God and Church&quot;","block_context":{"text":"God and Church","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/god-and-church"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":705,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2007\/07\/marty_wooten.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":122,"position":2},"title":"&#8220;The Central Purpose of a Fellowship&#8221;","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"July 31, 2007","format":false,"excerpt":"Marty Wooten, a one time ICOC teacher and bigwig, has recently joined Kip's LA church. I found it surprising and a little disappointing, but it may be a good thing after all. Marty may be the balance that Kip needs. Marty seems more thoughtful and introspective while Kip is zealous\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;God and Church&quot;","block_context":{"text":"God and Church","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/god-and-church"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":247,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2005\/01\/the_truth_about.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":122,"position":3},"title":"The Truth About Western Christianity","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"January 10, 2005","format":false,"excerpt":"Please, go read this article at Christianity Today. (Thanks to Daniel at Alien Soil for the link.) It's a powerful expose on modern western Christianity. Ronald J. Sider does an excelent job pointing out the hypocracy of what is called Christianity in the US today. Quoting many polls and other\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;God and Church&quot;","block_context":{"text":"God and Church","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/god-and-church"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":492,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2006\/05\/remind_me_again.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":122,"position":4},"title":"Remind Me Again, Why Is Unity So Hard?","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"May 15, 2006","format":false,"excerpt":"I know that several of the readers of this blog are very concerned with unity between churches and church groups, particularly between the various restoration movement fellowships. Let me share something with you that I read today from Dan at Cerulean Sanctum:I go to Clear Mountain Community Church in Williamsburg,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;God and Church&quot;","block_context":{"text":"God and Church","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/god-and-church"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":198,"url":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/2004\/09\/missing_the_poi.shtml","url_meta":{"origin":122,"position":5},"title":"Missing the Point","author":"Doug Schaefer","date":"September 15, 2004","format":false,"excerpt":"As I've mentioned before, the church I'm a part of is an offshoot of the Churches of Christ. One of the things that attracted me to this church was it's passion for thestandards and misson of God and for the restoration of first century Christianity. They were determined to get\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;God and Church&quot;","block_context":{"text":"God and Church","link":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/god-and-church"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/122"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=122"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/122\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2149,"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/122\/revisions\/2149"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=122"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=122"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/salguod.net\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=122"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}